Welcome to Contest of Champions (CoC) Podcast, Episode #4! CoC is an interactive player vs. player game where your favorite Marvel characters go head to head to answer the eternal question of “who can beat whom in a fight?”
Join Jeff Jackson and Ian Johnson every week as they welcome two team managers who have a stable of five characters each ready to blast, zap, snikt, thwip, and smash their way to be the last one standing! It’s a little bit fan fiction, a little bit debate, a little bit role playing, and a whole bunch of fun! It’s an interactive adventure for the managers, and for the Comicattack.net community.
This week, we’re joined by Andy Liegl and Dan Briand!
First, we want to remind you, if you are a comic artist, and you would like to provide a sketch or drawing of the characters battling this week, please send a link to your sketch to jeff@comicattack.net. We would love to spotlight your stuff!
Next, on this episode we shared our weekly Fights of the Week! Andy likes when the Punisher kills random thugs in Punisher #2 by Greg Rucka and Marco Checcheto; Dan foreshadowed his fight a bit and went in the back issue bin for Dark Avengers Annual #1 by Brian Michael Bendis and Chris Bachalo, where Noh-Varr takes on the Sentry; Ian plugged the Gravity vs. Hardball fight in Fear Itself: Youth In Revolt #4 by Sean McKeever and Mike Norton; and Jeff really dug the Pearl Jones vs. Skinner Sweet fight (and death) in American Vampire #18 by Scott Snyder and Rafael Albuquerque.
Most importantly, here’s the show:
Episode #4
(You can click the link to listen to the podcast or right click “save link as” to download it.)
This week, we have two Kree half-breed Avengers going at it!! You can click on the images to find out the characters’ power sets and history.
Protector
Managed by Dan Briand
vs.
Ms. Marvel
Managed by Andy Liegl
at the Golden Gate Bridge, San Francisco, CA
Here are the rules for the managers, check ’em out.
Here’s how CoC works for you folks at home:
1. Listen to the podcast.
2. Come back here to Comicattack.net to this very post. Share your opinion, comment below, and help sway the public opinion. Even comments provided by the Comicattack.net fans will be considered by Jeff & Ian in their decisions.
3. VOTE on the poll below! You have until Sunday night, September 4 at 9:00pm EST to vote. That’s when we record the show. Votes at the time of recording will be the only ones that will count.
4. E-mail us at jeff@comicattack.net or leave us a voicemail at 706 761-0115 with your questions, comments, or rationales. You may make it on the show!
5. Listen to the next episode to see who wins! The winner will be announced at the beginning of the show.
6. One small disclaimer: This is all subjective. Have fun with it and if your favorite character doesn’t win, laugh it off and keep on listening!
Don’t forget to leave us an iTunes Review by clicking here. Follow us on Twitter @CoCComicattack, or Like us on Facebook. To listen to previous episodes and battles, visit this link.
Next week: Tom McNeely vs. Eli Anthony.
CoC Standings
Eli Anthony 1-0
Beta Ray Bill
Dr. Doom
Red Hulk
Invisible Woman
Prince of Orphans
Environment Switch Card: 1, Double Team Card: 1
Dan Briand 0-1
Thor
Black Bolt
Skaar
Annihilus
Protector (Noh-Varr)
Environment Switch Card: 1, Double Team Card: 1
Andy Liegl 1-0
Ms. Marvel
Magneto
Volstagg
Exodus
Hercules
Environment Switch Card: 1, Double Team Card: 1
Tom McNeely 0-1
Gladiator
Dr. Strange
Thor Girl
Quasar
Wonder Man
Environment Switch Card: 1, Double Team Card: 1
Current Environments in Play:
Golden Gate Bridge
Oil Rig Hibernia
The Limmat River, Switzerland
This week’s music is brought to you by Eisley, Marvelous Things.
Jeff Jackson
jeff@comicattack.net
Don’t let Andy fool you, folks. There’s a reason that in all of his scenarios, he’s actually trying to avoid Ms.Marvel confronting Noh-Varr. Deep down he knows that the protector can totally spank that hot ass.
The Protector is not some pacifist alien punk, he’s a Kree soldier, first and foremost. Make sure to read up on this character before making your decision. He’s got some pretty amazing tricks up his sleeve. As strong as Luke Cage, as agile as Spider-Man, as fast as Quicksilver, as focused as Iron Fist and these are just his inherit powers before receiving the Nega-Bands from the Kree Supreme Intelligence.
Make the right decision folks.. VOTE NOH-VARR! **wink & point**
For those of you wondering why the pics of Noh-Varr and Carol aren’t centered…it’s a WordPress glitch. Sorry! That doesn’t change the awesomeness of this fight.
Don’t forget to call our voicemail or send an email!!!!
Noh Varr is a serious threat to anyone he comes up against. I used him in a past CoC and have much more respect for the guy having had to read up on him. Now he’s more focused and fierce so I think he’d give Ms. Marvel a serious run for her money here. Not discrediting her at all but it’s going to take some serious convincing for me.
I must say that I always thought of Noh-Varr as basically a little sissy. After hearing Dan’s argument, and reading up on him a bit, including that Dark Avengers annual, I must say that this is a tougher fight to call than I initially believed it would be.
I could use some convincing one way or the other.
To commence, I think I’ve made some pretty solid points in the podcast, none of which deal with Carol trying to avoid Noh-Varr, especially when considering my first rationale was in direct response to Dan’s- these two characters taking to the skies going at it. Ms. Marvel would absorb any energy Noh-Varr throws at her and hurl it back, destroying the tech The Protector uses, right in that nice red bullseye he has on his chest. Danvers is an expert marksman. That little red dot is begging to get blasted. If it turns into pot shots, Carol won’t miss.
Also, voters really need to consider Ms. Marvel’s ability of energy absorbtion. This is an ability that has stuck with her since her Binary days. Pretty much anything Noh-Varr will be throwing at her at range will be energy based. If he so happens to land a hit on her, she could take it and dish it right back at him Sebastian Shaw style. To quote this ability: “She is also impervious to most forms of energy attack, and in fact such attacks can make her stronger.” (source: http://www.comicvine.com/ms-marvel/29-21561/) Check it:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11352/847278-untitledscanned05si2_super.jpg
So, yeah. Noh-Varr is screwed. All of his attacks are based on energy, and Carol will destroy him with his own abilities.
Yes, I used the element of disguise/surprise rationale because I think it would work. If Noh-Varr takes to the skies (or even if he doesn’t, he’s pretty easy to find in that suit), Carol will know where he is. If she goes undercover, Noh-Varr is going to have a difficult time picking her out of a crowd, and Carol, moving at the speed of sound, would K.O. Alien Boy before he even knew what hit him.
And since Dan is all high on Noh-Varr hitting the Sentry, big deal. Carol did it too, and it hurt him:
http://marvel.wikia.com/File:Mighty_Avengers_Vol_1_6_page_12_Carol_Danvers_%26_Robert_Reynolds_(Earth-616).jpg
And here is her beating the shit out of a Super-Skrull…you know, the aliens that rape Kree:
http://www.comicsbulletin.com/reviews/images/0806/msmarvel286.jpg
http://e.imagehost.org/0936/Ms_Marvel_28_MrShepherd-Megan_pg10.jpg
An example of her energy power at close range:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/15047/1182802-ms._marvel_v2_010__2007_.cbr___page_16_super.jpg
And the top 3 reasons to vote for Ms. Marvel:
1) http://superpoweredfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/MsMarvel-VampBeauty.jpg
2) http://www.flickr.com/photos/bellechere/2846456272/
3) http://lh4.ggpht.com/-JrxaeYWDcu4/SoCxz2sQmgI/AAAAAAAAF6I/P9YM55UQa5w/63%252520-%252520Ms%252520Marvel.JPG
Bwahahahaha!
Thanks for the scans, Andy. Those are really helpful (especially the last one). The energy absorption power is gonna be a tough nut to crack. I’d like to hear what Dan has to say about that.
Well if we remember my rational, I did say that they’d Dog-Fight until they realized it was futile. I know for a fact that these two will have to end the fight with close quarter combat. Noh-Varr’s agility and reflexes are too quick for Ms.Marvel’s Plasma Blasts to even hit him.
Here he is easily dodging an eyeblast:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/SevenShackles/marvelboy/Marvel_Boyv01_003Imbie13.jpg
And more:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/SevenShackles/marvelboy/Marvel_Boyv01_003Imbie15.jpg
I still maintain that Noh-Varr’s seceret weapon is his saliva. He just needs to get close enough to spit on her, making Carol start to hallucinate and affording Noh-Varr a certain degree of mind control over her.
During this time, he can whip out his pocket battlefield where she will be even more disoriented.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/SevenShackles/marvelboy/MarvelBoy02_11_12.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/SevenShackles/marvelboy/MarvelBoy02_13.jpg
Unfortunately, I don’t have 35 years of scans to chose from, so I can’t match Andy in terms of visual aids, but I will post more scans of pages that I referenced in the podcast.
Goosebump moments:
http://readrant.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/noh-varr-finally-shows-up.jpg
Snapping Xavin’s Neck:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100320195161/marveldatabase/images/9/94/Civil_War_Young_Avengers_and_Runaways_Vol_1_2_page_24_Noh-Varr_(Earth-200080).jpg
Defeating the the Young Avengers/Runaways:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100320194356/marveldatabase/images/e/ef/Noh-Varr_%28Earth-200080%29_0002.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100320194524/marveldatabase/images/7/76/Noh-Varr_%28Earth-200080%29_0003.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100320195336/marveldatabase/images/5/54/Noh-Varr_%28Earth-200080%29_0004.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100320194710/marveldatabase/images/8/8b/Noh-Varr_%28Earth-200080%29_0005.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100320195806/marveldatabase/images/0/08/Noh-Varr_%28Earth-200080%29_0008.jpg
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100320195942/marveldatabase/images/5/55/Noh-Varr_%28Earth-200080%29_0011.jpg
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100320201648/marveldatabase/images/7/7b/Noh-Varr_%28Earth-200080%29_0025.jpg
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100320194811/marveldatabase/images/2/2d/Noh-Varr_%28Earth-200080%29_0006.jpg
BTW, he did most of that with the Vision’s arm imbedded into his chest.
You keep overlooking two major facets of Ms. Marvel’s strategy/ability here:
1) She can move at the speed of sound
2) She’s an expert marksman(woman?)
Noh-Varr spit on her while she’s flying at the speed of sound? Really? Have you ever tried spitting out a car window going even 30 mph? That’s not happening.
You showed an image of The Protector dodging an eye blast from some goons… ok? Also in those scans, The Protector is fighting guys with jet packs and seems to be keeping pace with them- they are not moving at the speed of SOUND.
Plus, why would Carol even get in close anyway? She doesn’t have to (and if she did, she’d do it undercover as explained above) as she can fly around him all day, blasting away. She’ll hit him well before he will her. Experience and skill comes into play here, and she outwits The Protector in both categories.
More of his awesome reaction time:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3853/1057399-blocks_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3853/1057400-blocks2_super.jpg
Note that he dodged the first arrow and wasn’t even looking at it.
Noh-Varr vs Carol:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100320204643/marveldatabase/images/4/43/Carol_Danvers_%26_Noh-Varr_%28Earth-200080%29_0001.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100320204539/marveldatabase/images/5/56/Carol_Danvers_%26_Noh-Varr_%28Earth-200080%29_0002.jpg
He is MORE than worthy for battle
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100320205142/marveldatabase/images/6/6a/Noh-Varr_%28Earth-200080%29_0032.png
😉
Andy, can Carol instantly travel at the speed of sound or does she need to accelerate to it.
Noh-Varr can reaction time is lightning quick. He’s classified as a bullet dodger. Bullets travel up to twice as fast as the speed of sound.
Noh-Varr can teleport. Reaction time + teleport = Speed of Sound, Shmeed of Shmound.
Carol is rarely seen fighting at a distance.. she almost always comes into battle with fists flying. I still stick to the fact that Noh-Varr’s reaction time is simply too quick for Carol.
Carol’s reflexes and agility are classified as peak human. Even though she can fly fast, in a straight line, she can still only react barely faster than a normal human can.
According to Carol herself, she can fly “flat out” at 350 MPH.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/36536/1657087-missmarvel1_super.jpg
Speed of sound is 768 mph. Which means Carol travels at Subsonic speeds.
She also needs room to accelerate. There’s no way she can buzz around the Golden Gate Bridge at Supersonic Speeds.
Speed of flight argument is therefore invalid.
:p
Dan, those are some very convincing scans.
Why was he attacking the young avengers?
So, in those scans of Noh-Varr holding Carol off the building…what’s the context for that? How is he able to do that? Why was he doing that? I need some explanation before I can buy that he is manhandling her like that.
Well, the scans of him and Carol are definitely interesting, but I still vote Carol. Here’s why…Carol has been fighting and training for a lot longer than him. She’s torn members of the Brood in half, slapped around Super-Skrull, went toe 2 toe with every heavy hitter in the universe and come out of it. With Protector being so new, I think it realy hurts him against someone as seasoned as Carol.
Never mind. I found it. That was during Dark Reign. Carol was undercover, not wanting to be captured by Osborn. However, she throws some punches and Noh-Varr handles her pretty easily. I think you could argue either way that either he can take her or that she was downplaying so as not to cause a scene and get caught.
To re-iterate:
Dan is saying Noh-Varr’s spit will KO Carol. No way in hell does that spit hit her. I stand by my argument whether she is moving at the speed of sound or 300mph, he ain’t hitting her with any spit. Also, you’re selling snake oil with that scan relating to her top flight speed. It was from her ongoing series (circa mid 2000s), and she has since surpassed the speed mentioned- she even says so in that very page. Furthermore, I found another source that says she can fly up to Mach 3 (which is roughly 750 mph) in open atmosphere (which this certainly is), so there ya go (source- ComicVine profile page).
Secondly, sure Dan’s scans are nice and tidy, but are they against charcaters who ABSORB ENERGY ATTACKS?
NO!
Aside from the acid spit (lol), Noh-Varr can’t touch her. Carol could fly around all day, blasting away at Noh-Varr with plasma shots, and if he lands one on her, she’s dealing it back Bishop style. I’d also like to see him try and spit on her when she punches him with the force of 92 tons moving at 700 mph.
And yes, that scan with her and Noh-Varr was from Dark Reign, and it was because The Protector was working for Osborn (Dark Avengers) and if she blew her cover, he’d report back to him about who she was and where she was so she had to hold back.
All in all, Noh Varr has proven he packs a punch, but this is a bad matchup for him.
@Eli: He was brainwashed by the Warden of “The Cube” (Negative Zone prison) and ordered to bring in the YA/Runaways to be incarcerated.
@Andy: That scan of Ms.Marvel confirming her own top speed of flight is from her final issue, Ms.Marvel #50 (April 2010). I’d say that’s pretty damn recent.
The Young Avengers thing is impressive. My only question is whether or not he would attack Carol with the same ferocity as he did while he was brainwashed?? I doubt that he would, since he wasn’t too ferocious against the worthy Hulk.
Also, if Carol absorbs enough energy, she can floor Noh-Varr no sweat. I remember in Mighty Avengers, Sentry was going nuts and nobody could stop him. She had just absorbed the energy of a nuclear warhead going off in her face (which is bad in itself), and then she used that energy to punch and KO Sentry.
However, Noh-Varr no doubt is aware of her energy absorption powers… what to do hmmmm?
Also, another question. When Noh-Varr knocked the worthy Hulk on his butt, how did he do it?
He shot him with his Nega-Guns
http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Protector-is-knocked-down.jpg
Gotcha, thanks Dan.
This is a tough one. Dan, I’ll give it to you, you’ve taken Noh-Varr from a little sissy in my eyes to a definite contender in this fight.
Billy, Carol recently had her ass handed to her by a BRAND NEW villian: Superia in New Avengers so I’m not totally sold on the “experience” thing. It was issues 9-11 I think.
While the Protector does have the advantage in agility (being able to teleport and all), I just don’t think that he has the offensive capabilities to take down Ms. Marvel. According to the their respective marvel wikia sites provided, The Protector’s current strength is at a class 25 while Ms. Marvel’s is at a class 50 with the potential to be up to 100. Since any energy attack would be absorbed by Ms. Marvel, only making her stronger and more durable, the only real offensive attack available to the Protector is to spit on Ms. Marvel. Personally, I find it silly that hallucinogenic spit (while a good college party favor) has the ability to KO someone with the superior strength, durability, and decades of combat experience as Ms. Marvel. No discredit to the Protector as he was undoubtedly badass when fighting the Worthy Hulk, but so was Ms. Marvel when she speared him into a wall then dropped him into a semi full of liquid explosion. Ms. Marvel’s energy absorption just takes away too many of The Protectors offensive capabilities. I’m going to have to go with Ms. Marvel on this one.
Way before the contest began I did reviews for New Avengers 9-11 and if you look at the scans I used Superia clearly uses an energy attack on Ms Marvel that knocks her on her ass and when it’s all said and done Carol ended up on the wrong side of a beat down. Carol’s also been taken out by energy blasts before so I’m not too sure she can just absorb the attacks and all will be well.
Noh Varr has way too many offensive capabilities here that can either subdue or K.O. Carol whereas all she has is her physical attacks and limited energy attacks. Though we all know she prefers to use her fists which would requier her to get up close while Noh Varr can attack at various ranges.
I know he’s gone through some changes but as far as I remember he can turn off his pain sensors and has an indefinite amount of stamina so that right there gives him the upper hand in outlasting Carol in this fight.
But since both of them are good guys and they’re fighting over an area where civvies could get hurt I don’t see this fight being all that intense since they wouldn’t want to hurt anyone.
Gid, I’m calling bullshit on your Superia reference and here is why.
Check up on your Superia history (she’s not brand new). Before this appearance in New Avengers, she was trying to get AIM’s clone of the Cosmic Cube (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superia). Now, look at this New Avengers fight you referenced- the panel right before Ms. Marvel comes crashing in through the roof.
Do you see what Superia puts in her hand? It’s an object of some kind. Then notice how she’s wielding massive energy powers… yeah, I think she has the cloned Cosmic Cube right now, which is why she not only beat on Carol (who took a shit ton of hits before going down BTW), but Cage and the entire New Avengers team as well.
She has the cloned Cosmic Cube man. That’s what Carol was being hit with, not regular old energy powers.
Also, Carol can only absorb energy to the level of a nuclear bomb, then she runs the risk of overload. The reason why she could not absorb the hits from Superia was because they’re from the flippin COSMIC CUBE.
So yeah, nice reference, but irrelevant to this fight… unless Noh-Varr has the cosmic cube in that armor, which he doesn’t.
Furthermore, Superia shoots concussive blasts, not energy blasts which could also explain why Carol did not absorb them.
Jeez.
You’re “assuming” that this villain has cloned the Cosmic Cube. Got any proof?
No, she did not clone the Cosmic Cube. AIM did and she has been hellbent on stealing it. Read the New Avengers issues Gid referenced. It’s pretty obvious in the panel she grabs something before throwing down with Ms. Marvel. Also, a quick check on her history tells you what she’s all about… and she was all about the Cosmic Cube clone.
Also, like I said, look at Superia’s powers. She does not do anything with energy- her blasts are concussive. Noh-Varr shoots energy blasts. So yeah, that fight is irrelevant.
“ As Protector, he was later given specially designed Nega-Bands that were more advanced and differently powered to prior versions, plus a protective outfit that would morph around him. The extent of these additional powers have yet to be revealed, but have shielding properties with gauntlets that can fire powerful concussive blasts.”
So apparently, Noh-Varr does have concussive blasts in his arsenal.
Haha, nice.
Now all he has to do is grab hold of Carol and hit her 7+ times in the face like Superia did to take her down. Doubt that’s going to happen.
The only reason Superia had a hold on Carol was because Carol charged in without knowing her opponent or what she could do. She even admits that in the issue.
Not the case here.
Her energy absorption powers are still temporary at best and even though we don’t know what Superia (what a stupid freakin’ name) shot her with, Carol still didn’t absorb any of it. And are we to assume that she can’t absorb concussive energy that’s fired at her but all other types are okay? And if that’s the case then she’s screwed because the bands fire concussive blasts. Still IF that’s true about her (Superia) weilding the cube then I’ll take that and apologize for not realizing it before I put up my post earlier. Still Noh Varr turning off his pain receptors and the fact that his stamina has limits way beyond Carol’s I still say he can outlast her. Via teleportation, his speed, and various long distance weapon attacks he can take her out.
Though I still think both of you guys have a problem considering the enviroment.
Still a tough call, and I haven’t voted yet. I was initially leaning one way, now I’m a little swung to the other side. You guys have made it tough.
Bout time (speech……)!